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Shooting holes in gun proponents' arguments
Submitted by: Bruce W. Krafft

There are 17 comments on this story
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"Having reached our saturation point with the arguments supporting handguns for self-defense ... we felt it was essential to restate what should be obvious -- handguns are designed and sold solely for the purpose of killing."

"Given that fact, all of those who seem to believe that some mythical Old West environment, with everyone carrying a handgun, will deter shootings such as the recent tragedy at Virginia Tech need to exercise some independent thought ... If simply being armed was sufficient, we would have no police officers shot in the line of duty."

"Another argument, the deterrence factor, is equally specious -- for every crime that is supposedly deterred ... how many innocent ... are killed ..." ...
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Submitter's Note: Based on an conservative estimate of 754,300 DGUs per year, and 7,543 handgun homicides in 2005 there is one 'innocent' (70% of whom are felons) killed for every one hundered defensive gun uses.

Comment by: TheMrMitch (6/1/2007)

"handguns are designed and sold solely for the purpose of killing."

Not mine! Mine was designed to function (shoot Bullets) and sold to me to use as target practice. A sport. Argue that now. MY GUNS are for fun.

Comment by: Mitymite (6/1/2007)

"Another argument----how many innocents are killed"? Especially by cops?

Comment by: public1@nyc.rr.com (6/1/2007)

I'm interested in where the 754,300 number came from. Personally I think the number of DGU's is less...probably 200,000 (which is still a good enough number to support our position.) But I'd like to know the origins of that number

Comment by: stare (6/1/2007)

Can't remember at all where it came from, but some time ago, around the time I was reading Kleck and Kates, I know other studies with larger subject #s were done. I know one result was in the ballpark of 700K, plus Clinton's Justice Dept's 1.5M, and their acknowledgement that Kleck's 2.5 could be valid. Also believe one study came in around 300K. Of course, the grabbers only use the grossly under-reported FBI figures which are in the 100K area.

Comment by: Only for killing?.com (6/2/2007)

If they are only for killing,Shouldn't we pass a law to disarm the police? I probably would feel safer walking around with my remington 1100 loaded with 00 buck,though :)

Comment by: mhudson@btc-bci.com (6/2/2007)

"Having reached our saturation point with the arguments supporting handguns for self-defense ... we felt it was essential to restate what should be obvious -- handguns are designed and sold solely for the purpose of killing."

Really? I must be using mine incorrectly. I have mine to keep from BEING killed. And besides that, it's FUN! And even beyond that, it pisses off idiots like the author of this tripe. That alone would be worth having a pistol.

Comment by: TimJenkin (6/2/2007)

Larry Gaber and Polly Archer

What a bunch of empty rhetoric!

Larry Gabby to much, and his parrot Polly!

This article is thee perfect example of constipation of the brain, and diarhea of the mouth.

Comment by: adk_man@yahoo.com (6/2/2007)

On the matter of gun control and another liberals stance on the subject I recall a flight to New Orleans. The lady sitting next to me was thrilled that the NOPD confiscating the citizens firearms, stating " I don't think anybody but the police should have any kind of gun". I decided to play devils advocate and asked her a few questions, where she lived, how the police were in her city, etc. With that information I asked her what would stop me from going to her house & raping tomorrow night. The look on her face was priceless. She thought a minute and responded in a whisper "nothing". "Perhaps you should reconsider your position." "But guns are evil!" "So am I, what are you going to do about it" Again silence. Finally-" I see your point"

Comment by: dougj241 (6/2/2007)

adk_man: Well played!

Comment by: dougj241 (6/2/2007)

"Another argument, the deterrence factor, is equally specious..."

Well, gee-whiz Einstein! How're you going to figure out how many crimes that don't happen, and how will you determine what the deterring factor was? Sheesh!

"If simply being armed was sufficient, we would have no police officers shot in the line of duty..."

And many of them are killed with their own weapon, yet we arm them anyway. Why is that? And just who is it who suggested that simply being armed was sufficient? When one sees a suggestion that more citizens "arm themselves," (more to follow)

Comment by: dougj241 (6/2/2007)

It is always enthymematic that "armed" includes training and practice. No book or article on self-defense that I've ever read ever suggested anyone should buy a gun, have 'em load it at the store, then carry it and rely on it without any further effort. That idea is, in my experience, universally flamed as being, in a word, STUPID.

You can be as careless and sloppy in your research and your thought as you want to be, Mr. Gaber and Ms. Archer; you can rely as heavily as you wish on slanted articles and deceitful editing, but, in the words of Judge Judy: kindly "Don't Pee On My Leg And Tell Me It's Raining!"

Comment by: Bruce (6/2/2007)

Public1 I came up with the 754,300 number to make it come out even. Most (honest) estimates are that there are that there are at least 1 million DGUs a year.

The antis frequently cite an 'authoratative' number of under 100K. That figure comes from the "National Crime Victimization Survey" which, last time I heard, first asks if you had been a victim of a crime and then asks how you defended yourself.

This seriously under reports DGUs becuase if you ward off a mugger with your gun, have you been the victim of a crime? Most people would answer "No" and then would never get to the DGU.

Comment by: Defender (6/2/2007)

Four Muslim men were foiled from carrying out a plot to destroy John F. Kennedy International Airport, kill thousands of people and trigger an economic catastrophe by blowing up a jet fuel artery that runs through populous residential neighborhoods, authorities said Saturday. (AP)
"Achmed, is less chance of being shotted as we dig, yes, in New York, where gun controls is maximum, in order to plant our smuggled explosionaries?" "Indeed, Mohammed, trucking them in from Mexico past gun-toting redneck America was masterful idea."

Comment by: Defender (6/2/2007)

Incidentally, the supposed planner of the attack was arrested before boarding a plane for the anti-American dictatorship of Venezuela. Remember ol' Chavez having all those get-togethers with hostiles in the Middle East. What DO you suppose they talked about?

Comment by: Jersey Devil (6/2/2007)

Yes there's a whole bunch of us stupid Americans misusing again. Guess the firearms "misuse" Nazis will be a knockin' on my door any time now to arrest me for not following manufacturer's operating instructions. Doesn't anyone read the owners manual any more???

Uh-oh... here we go again... I can't stop them... my fingers... they're about to type it again...
"Teddy's car has killed more people than my guns."

Comment by: Jersey Devil (6/2/2007)

Hummm. Last time I checked, a firearm was designed to propel a projectile out the bore with the intent to render a relatively straight and somewhat predictable path. And after these years... What a fool I've been.

Comment by: boomcat@comcast.net (6/3/2007)

To say that "The only purpose of a handgun is to kill." is like saying that the only purpose of a car is to burn fuel. The real purpose of a car is to provide transportation; as a consequence of providing that transportation it may burn some fuel, but that's not its purpose. In fact, it would be great if it didn't burn any fuel at all. Similarly, the purpose of a handgun is to provide security; it may have to kill in order to provide that security, but that's not its purpose. In fact, used properly, a handgun can provide security without killing anybody.