Responses to Clearing
the Air... and Moving On
Wave, and still coming
December 20, 2000
Your rebuttal to Leroy Pyle is monumental --
both in terms of scope and defense of truth. I can't imagine how long it must
have taken you or what brain-sweat you must have put into it. But you have
created something that goes far beyond a defense of your own reputation (as I'm
sure you know).
I've seen some of the Pyle/Horn/Stark messages
(though primarily the ones that pertain directly to CCOPS), so I know what's
going on, though this is the first real view I've seen of what happened to you.
I'm coming to believe someone needs to write a *big* book exclusively on the
authoritarianism and "closed" nature of police -- the psychology, the
tactics, the consequences.
I know you must have been buried in e-mails,
both praising and damning you (the bastards, threatening you!). So don't feel
you have to reply to this. But I wanted to give you my thanks and sympathies,
and to tell you your work and your words matter.
(though evidently we are still headed there in a handbasket)
[I know I'm on the right track when one of my
heroes applauds my efforts. ~~ Angel Shamaya]
Keep up the good work!! Never give UP
Msgt G Cordova U.S.M.C. (ret)
The Faith is being kept at this end!
Advice: There's a lot to be said about "singlemindedness of
purpose" and "keeping one's eye on the doughnut and not the
In any event, and in spite of the foregoing, have a great Holiday Season and a
greater, and wiser, New Year!
Strife between my allies has always worried me.
Not only must be fight off numerous and varied assaults on our liberties, but
also attend to internal which occasionally replaces healthy discourse.
It is unfortunate that Mr. Shamaya has had to
defend his honor and his reputation. I am gratified that he took that obligation
seriously and invested an inordinate amount of effort into presenting the
situation in what I consider an even-handed and informative manner.
It is my fond hope that Mr. Pyle and Mr.
Shamaya will continue to be allies in our work to restore Constitutional
freedoms. They do not have to like each other in order to work together. They
only have to remember that in this fight we may have to share the same foxhole.
I am only familiar with Mr. Pyle's work by his
reputation and his writings. He is an ally, and if his methods differ from mine,
it is his right. I will honor this diversity of approaches and hope that others
do, too. I will also honor the differences in the eventual goals, as we are
close enough to cooperate.
In the case of Mr. Shamaya, I am more familiar
with his work. Because of what I know of him as a tireless fighter for your
civil rights and mine, and because of what I know of him as a man of honor, I
would like to state for the record:
I, Oleg Volk, pledge my honor and my resources
to the cause espoused and the means chosen by Angel Shamaya and http://www.KeepAndBearArms.com.
I do not hold Mr. Shamaya as perfect, but I do consider his efforts to be among
the most effective and worthy of all current pro-RKBA endeavors. Please join me
in support for his work and in my belief that he is an honorable, honest man who
is on our side to the full extent of his ability.
Had I truly believed you to be "LEO
bashing" -- I'd have called you to the carpet immediately. I have little
tolerance for broad-based generalizations of any kind--and you did no such
What you reported was a situation in which the
LEOs in question violated their own oaths.
You've still got my trust and
Keep the faith, bro
Some of the best words to come out of the GOA
Think about it, how do they gain if you believe
Whenever something like the Jerry Michels v.
Law Enforcement arises or a politician tells you something, always ask yourself
The answer will reveal their true, but hidden
I don't personally know you, but I believe you
to be an upright individual with that would not intentionally mislead anyone for
your own gain. I also believe that many, many folks we come upon would just
assume our God given liberty, to fulfill their own agenda or misplaced
"enlightened" ideology. The bottom line for me is God's word (the
Bible) and the Constitution.
God bless you for wearing your heart on your
sleeve as Christ wants us to be transparent, not shrouded in a false facade to
please others. I see you as one who has taken the courage to flip over a few
apple carts, just as Christ did at the temple when He seen the money changers
doing their evil. He raised a few eyebrows that day; just as you have in your
reporting what you to believe is truth.
If you have a second, please read the short and
sweet information called "The Trouble with Trouble Makers" a good
friend shared with me. It might help you with a new view, as it has helped me. I
pray that you and yours have a great Christmas and time to reflect on the good
things in life. If you're ever near the Fresno California area, I'm good for a
cup of coffee or a beer.
Please keep up the good work and your mission,
Leroy Pyle et al
I wanted to express my support for your stand
against the comments put forth by the Second Amendment PD group.
While I have had dealings with Mr. Pyle on
several occasions, I have never been of the opinion that he spoke for all police
officers, only for his group.
I am a former Law Enforcement Officer. I have
several years experience at both the local and federal levels. That being said I
can honestly state that your articles and fact finding on ATF and MESA Police
tactics have NEVER offended me in any way.
Police tactics have undergone many changes in
the past few years and the "Jack Booted Thug" approach is just the
latest incarnation. What used to be a source of pride for a department:
"Good Old Fashioned Police Work" has been replaced by shoddy methods,
poor follow through, and almost no investigation of the "suspect"
BEFORE a raid occurs.
I am afraid that your prose has run up against
the "Blue Wall of Silence" where some officers feel themselves duty
bound to defend the actions of their "Brothers in Arms" no matter what
they have done. It is a poor commentary on the evolution of the Police Officer
as a public servant.
I have always made it my credo to defend a
fellow officer when I knew him to be honest, forthright, and law abiding. If I
found him to be "dirty" I would not defend him. There have been enough
video tapes of "Police Out of Control" including some of the federal
agencies that Mr. Pyle would have to be deaf as well as blind to have missed
these "Law Enforcement Excesses".
Angel, I appreciate your desire to report these
incidents "as they happened" sometimes in brutally honest terms. It is
unfortunate that "others" are unable or unwilling to believe what is
happening before their very eyes.
This message is a private one for you, If you
feel the need to post it for public consumption, please remove my name and
Name withheld by request
KABA Member: Still Beside You
After reading Clearing the Air, I just wanted
to send you a note letting you know that I will still be glad to stand beside
you. I had a small taste of what you got. Back a few months ago, KABA put up an article
Mr. Pyle wrote. I sent him an e-mail asking him some questions in relation to
his article. I did not realize it would when I wrote it, but it went out to the
2A cops group. I was asking why it is that we rarely see cops coming out
publicly asking for the prosecution (spelling) and sentencing of cops who go
over the line. I very quickly got a response from him, stating that I had
obviously had a bad experience and was now a completely bigoted cop hater. I
also received responses from a couple of his group members who explained that I
was obviously nothing more than dumb trash, not worthy of a reply. Trying to be
civil, I did my best to explain my position and rephrase my questions in as none
offensive a way as possible. Over the next week, the conversation went back and
forth between myself and Mr. Pyle and his group. In the end, they were
determined to write me off as some gun toting, cop hating, brain dead idiot. At
that point, I gave up.
Angel, your one of the very few out there
willing to call a spade, a spade. If they can't take the truth, that's just to
bad. Please continue to stand your ground knowing that you are not, and will
not, stand alone.
Posted in KeepAndBearArms.com Guestbook
I certainly do not find your situation to be
unique. I therefore make this response to the super critics.
The BATF has been and continues to be a
criminal organization. I wonder just how many pounds (tons?) of documents some
people need before they realize that the BATF is NOT a law enforcement agency.
They are NOT fellow law enforcement fellows. Are these other individuals
(critics) trying to tell us something about themselves? Wake up guys! It's
coffee time. You don't suppose that it was YOU who were led down a primrose
path. If you had a problem with Angel, why did you not go to Angel? Your
"documentation" doesn't carry one ounce more weight. Sorry guys, but
your actions (methods of handling this) sure look Clintonesque.
Yea I know that I am putting my own reputation
with you in jeopardy. I still say, if you were truly conservative why did you
handle this in this manner. Question: Well then why are you (John) violating
your own rules and bringing your opinion out in public. Answer: You apparently
think that all laundry is public. Hope you like GI soap. You have made enough
blunders to make many of us yellow flag you. I too have been led down primrose
paths. But surely we all should learn from our mistakes. Those who are goading
the Satanic New Order, Worldwide, are really in for persecution. Think not? Read
your history books (not modern propagandists writings, purporting their lies to
be history). Those who do not learn from history curse themselves to repeat it.
The SNOW is knee deep, quit shoveling back onto the path.
I do know one FACT, and that is that ALL will
be held responsible for our actions. Proceed with caution and wisdom. The price
for failure is far too high for either your or my budget. Our enemy is one
Sincerely, John (from Minnesota)
Whew! I just finished reading your entire
rebuttal to the Leroy Pyle (et al) flame wars. And I found myself getting
madder, and Madder, and MADDER!
Not at you, of course, but on your behalf. Mad
I can't tell you how grateful I am for your
efforts for KABA. I remember writing to you the 1st day I read a KABA article,
and I have written several times since. I think you have personally provided the
energy to break hundreds or thousands of readers out of their silent
resignation, and you have brought out to the light of day some very illegal
things going on by ATF, Gore, etc.
KABA is my home page. I read every single
article -- as much for the information as for the energy boost. I am a member
and will contribute more as $$$ become freer (my wife has been really sick and
pulling down some serious medical costs).
I don't know what kind of place the Internet or
2nd Amendment would be without KABA. I consider it the premiere site for the
gathering of information and the publication of intelligently written articles.
It is the FIRST place I go when I think there might be news about some
gun-related thing, and it is the last thing I check before I logout for the day.
You're a true activist, Angel, and a remarkably
well-spoken one. Leroy is a barking dog who loves cursing the darkness and isn't
willing to light any candles.
I take your side any day of the week, and even
before I read one of your articles, I know it is going to be both fair and
impartial (as well as fun to read).
I hope you can continue to move on and don't
let this get you down. It is always so much easier to criticize than it is to
build. And what you are building deserves all our respect.
I am with you on your pro gun march but you and
I know just like our founding fathers told us, the only thing an out of control
govt understands is force! that is the purpose of the Militia which is very
legal! Trust me, when the domestic enemies of the constitution understand that
there are millions of armed men standing in the way of their agenda one of two
things will happen. Either they will back off or they will speed up their
agenda. Remember " govt. is like fire" it knows no reason! Encourage
people to prepare for war to possibly prevent it.
Mann Killian here. I have read the better part
of your posting and must say I do have some questions. However, is one to
blindly believe that this man would deliberately and cavalierly put his
livelihood and freedom on the line? I really think that's quite a stretch in
this day of hysteria and emotional mob mentality surrounding the "gun"
I read the affidavit with it's references to
certain audio/videotaped transactions. Have you heard or seen these?
I think it very interesting that these
"allies" of ours cite laws, regulations and procedures and not the
Constitution. Regulations and procedures mean absolutely nothing as a basis for
willful violations of the Constitution by an officer sworn to the same document.
As for laws; there are many, many bad laws on the books that need to be
repealed. As we know, most federal firearms laws are unConstitutional anyway.
There is no unConstitutional law, regulation or procedure that legitimizes an
action like this.
Until I find just cause to the contrary, I
stand firmly by your side Sir.
I read with great interest the verbal ping-pong
match between you and the three wannabe Chekists, and how they so malevolently
brought character assassination, and threats into it.
Leroy, Joe and Bruce. Kinda reminds me of that
hippie song Abraham, Martin and John. Why am I not surprised that two of these
obvious J.Edgar Hoover admirers WERE on two of the most corrupt and
unconscionably violent police forces in America; Los Angeles and Noo Yawk City?
I shudder to imagine where the 3rd one is from. Moscow maybe? There's an old
saying about one bad apple spoiling the whole barrel. Apparently, these were
some of the "apples" that were "spoiled" by belonging to
America's own versions of the Nazi SS; the LAPD and the NYPD. I wonder why they
are no longer on these so-called "Departments". Ya suppose they were
caught doing a "Rodney King" on someone? Or maybe like the Chicago
police, they were caught pulling the "burglary" scam, where the cops
were the burglars? I dunno. What I DO know is that the reaction you were
subjected to suggests that you provoked a "guilt" reaction that I've
yet to see in print anywhere before. Where there's smoke.....
Anyway, I've written, then deleted a long
diatribe against the few LEOs who abuse their position of trust and
responsibility, and use it to assert their dark side, disparaging their brothers
in blue in the process. There's little point in reminding them that "The
Nurenburg Defense" resulted in hanged Nazis after WWII. I for one refuse to
let them turn me against the many GOOD officers who are dedicated and have
integrity, and nothing they can do or say can separate me from my LEO friends.
They certainly are not worth getting upset over, for "what goes around
comes around", and sooner or later, they will be judged, one way or
another. Their threats are empty, and their words are meaningless, for they are
loudmouthed pissants among men. I strongly suspect that the indignation they
throw around so loosely is actually resentment of the GOOD cops who ARE
dedicated to honoring their oath, and a pathetically doomed attempt to recruit
them in a campaign of Draconian authoritarianism that has no place in America.
While the DEA, BATF, and FBI (of Waco, Ruby
Ridge, and Elian infamy) seduce local police departments with promises of
federal funds and (illegally) seized property, money and equipment, and embark
on their own propaganda campaign painting them, like the NAZI SS, as the "saviours
of the people", they need to stop and think. We've already seen it all
before. We're not buying it.
In closing, allow me to remind everyone that
VERY many of us are ex-military. We remember the oath WE took, to defend against
"enemies from without and within". Absent public repudiation of this
sworn oath, we are still bound by it, and it would do the Jack-Booted Thugs well
to keep that in mind.
In response to your reports of Law Enforcement,
they are right on the money, if anything a little to nice.
I deal with LE people on a regular basis and
know from experience that they truly believe they are a better segment of
society than you and I. They have a attitude that we owe them, they should
receive special discounts, they should not have to do anything the department
wont pay for. They brag about the hours they work per shift. My contact with
these people ranges from podium instructor for two major chemical/less than
lethal manufactures, firearms instructor for a local firearms academy, Director
of a state approved security school, to being a sworn officer of the state.
If nothing keep up the good work
and expose these people for what they really are.
Thanks for the great job.
C. Robert McDowell
I've had my run-ins with Leroy: He doesn't
merit your angst. Eschew any contact with him.
2) You are a-okay by me. I have this little
admonishment in my billfold: If two people agree on everything, one of them
isn't necessary. So, we may not always be in sync, as those goose-stepping
sychophants of Hitler's Third Reich, but we have numerous points in agreement.
3) We need you to continue challenging the
thought processes of your readers. The NRA needs folks to challenge their
leniency on infringing legislation. The whole community of patriots benefits
from your jousting with lesser intent individuals. Don't stop.
As we await G.W. Bush's swearing-in, let's keep
the dialogue on-going and uplifting. Afterwards, we can assess the next move.
Luther K. Lunchbucket
Your honor and integrity is, and has been
intact as far as I'm concerned......but, continue to watch your back! As these
same detractors do NOT want the truth to be told....apparently.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours!
You are still tops in my book, friend. Your
defense of our Constitution and Bill of Rights says more to me than any and all
slander against you. These people who speak out against you are no better than
the people that conducted the raid on the FFL Dealer.
Our Founding Fathers had the same people
backing the King of England too. Now look at England, they have have gun control
but no Crime Control. We will not put any faith in these people.
Keep up the good work, We The People are
Charles R. Tinsley
up the good work you are doing. Screw the bad cops that will always
defend cops no matter how bad they are. Bad cops are like a
cancer that will continue to grow if not stopped dead in its tracks by righteous
people. Waco & Ruby Ridge are good examples & now we have
Mesa, Arizona. These rogue cops must be stopped in the name of
freedom & democracy, people like yourself must make a difference.
patriot community back s you 100%. Keep up the good work. We will not
take this lying down again.
Lock n Load for Freedom.
I am sorry you have been targeted by some
"partial sunshine patriots". These apparently as you have found out
are not patriots at all but "sunshine" types who are ready to spread
false hoods as a way of expressing their jealousy of a real supporter of the 2nd
amendment!!! Keep up the good work. You have done a good job of
exposing their "mean spirited attack on you." They
will be judged by a higher power when the time comes. This
shows how the "sunshine boys" would rather follow their
hobby then give to support to the 2nd Amendment. They are the leaders of a 5th
column in the pro-gun movement!!
Keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work. 220 million silent
majorities are with you. They always attack your character when they have
something to hide.
Debra, descendant of John Alden
You have my support. I have been hassled for
open carry. I have a CCP but I chose to open carry because it feels more honest
to me. I have missed your messages in the last little while. I hope you continue
to take an active course of action to help all of us to protect the only
amendment that ensures our freedom. If I were there with you right now I would
shake your hand and tell you of my friends that support you also. We have a new
President that shoots so let's hope that these last remaining days are the low.
Full Support and Thanks,
No problem here.
Lt.Colonel, USAF (Retired)
Dear Mr. Shamaya,
Please be encouraged. There are many people,
like me for example, that are police officers that don't condone what is
places like Mesa, AZ. Our first oath is to defend The Constitution of The United
States of America. We understand that this involves all of The
Amendments, including of course, the 2nd Amendment.
We also fully believe and understand that we
must never depend on government to protect us from harm. This is a
responsibility carried by each one of us and we encourage and promote
responsible gun ownership as one of those solutions for citizen protection. The
vast majority of peace officers that I know and work with will admit that they
are not the national solution to crime prevention and personal protection, but
that the armed citizen is certainly part of those solutions.
If you have researched your facts down in Mesa
and believe them to be correct, then you have every right to print them. Unlike
the great majority of today's media, I am sure if you made any mistakes (and I
don't believe you did) at least your heart and spirit is in the right place, and
you would be honest enough to tell your readers of any errors discovered later.
Please keep up your efforts in the protection
of 2nd Amendment rights and know that many of us who wear badges are in
agreement with you.
May God continually bless and strengthen you,
Your readers know who to believe. Keep hurting
them with the truth!!
We have never met, but I consider you a
"Brother in Arms" concerning the 2nd Amendment. Keep up the good
work and remain proud of the service you are providing to the people. As
long as you are true to your convictions, your enemies will quake in their
boots as they know Truth and Righteousness will triumph over evil. God
bless you and Keep Your Powder Dry.
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