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Responses to Clearing the Air... and Moving On

The Second Wave, and still coming

 

RE: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=1014

December 20, 2000

Salute

Dear Angel,

Your rebuttal to Leroy Pyle is monumental -- both in terms of scope and defense of truth. I can't imagine how long it must have taken you or what brain-sweat you must have put into it. But you have created something that goes far beyond a defense of your own reputation (as I'm sure you know).

I've seen some of the Pyle/Horn/Stark messages (though primarily the ones that pertain directly to CCOPS), so I know what's going on, though this is the first real view I've seen of what happened to you. I'm coming to believe someone needs to write a *big* book exclusively on the authoritarianism and "closed" nature of police -- the psychology, the tactics, the consequences.

I know you must have been buried in e-mails, both praising and damning you (the bastards, threatening you!). So don't feel you have to reply to this. But I wanted to give you my thanks and sympathies, and to tell you your work and your words matter.

To freedom!
(though evidently we are still headed there in a handbasket)

Claire Wolfe

[I know I'm on the right track when one of my heroes applauds my efforts. ~~ Angel Shamaya]


Keep up the good work!!  Never give UP

Msgt G Cordova  U.S.M.C. (ret)


The Faith is being kept at this end!

Advice:  There's a lot to be said about "singlemindedness of purpose" and "keeping one's eye on the doughnut and not the hole."

In any event, and in spite of the foregoing, have a great Holiday Season and a greater, and wiser, New Year!

Forrest


Strife between my allies has always worried me. Not only must be fight off numerous and varied assaults on our liberties, but also attend to internal which occasionally replaces healthy discourse.

It is unfortunate that Mr. Shamaya has had to defend his honor and his reputation. I am gratified that he took that obligation seriously and invested an inordinate amount of effort into presenting the situation in what I consider an even-handed and informative manner.

It is my fond hope that Mr. Pyle and Mr. Shamaya will continue to be allies in our work to restore Constitutional freedoms. They do not have to like each other in order to work together. They only have to remember that in this fight we may have to share the same foxhole.

I am only familiar with Mr. Pyle's work by his reputation and his writings. He is an ally, and if his methods differ from mine, it is his right. I will honor this diversity of approaches and hope that others do, too. I will also honor the differences in the eventual goals, as we are close enough to cooperate.

In the case of Mr. Shamaya, I am more familiar with his work. Because of what I know of him as a tireless fighter for your civil rights and mine, and because of what I know of him as a man of honor, I would like to state for the record:

I, Oleg Volk, pledge my honor and my resources to the cause espoused and the means chosen by Angel Shamaya and http://www.KeepAndBearArms.com. I do not hold Mr. Shamaya as perfect, but I do consider his efforts to be among the most effective and worthy of all current pro-RKBA endeavors. Please join me in support for his work and in my belief that he is an honorable, honest man who is on our side to the full extent of his ability.

Oleg Volk
http://www.a-human-right.com


Angel,

Had I truly believed you to be "LEO bashing" -- I'd have called you to the carpet immediately. I have little tolerance for broad-based generalizations of any kind--and you did no such thing.

What you reported was a situation in which the LEOs in question violated their own oaths.

You've still got my trust and respect.

Bryan Sampsel


Keep the faith, bro

Angel,

Some of the best words to come out of the GOA seminar:

Think about it, how do they gain if you believe them?

Whenever something like the Jerry Michels v. Law Enforcement arises or a politician tells you something, always ask yourself this question.

The answer will reveal their true, but hidden intentions.

In liberty,

Ken Rineer


Dear Shamaya:

I don't personally know you, but I believe you to be an upright individual with that would not intentionally mislead anyone for your own gain. I also believe that many, many folks we come upon would just assume our God given liberty, to fulfill their own agenda or misplaced "enlightened" ideology. The bottom line for me is God's word (the Bible) and the Constitution.

God bless you for wearing your heart on your sleeve as Christ wants us to be transparent, not shrouded in a false facade to please others. I see you as one who has taken the courage to flip over a few apple carts, just as Christ did at the temple when He seen the money changers doing their evil. He raised a few eyebrows that day; just as you have in your reporting what you to believe is truth.

If you have a second, please read the short and sweet information called "The Trouble with Trouble Makers" a good friend shared with me. It might help you with a new view, as it has helped me. I pray that you and yours have a great Christmas and time to reflect on the good things in life. If you're ever near the Fresno California area, I'm good for a cup of coffee or a beer.

Please keep up the good work and your mission,

John B.


Leroy Pyle et al

Angel,

I wanted to express my support for your stand against the comments put forth by the Second Amendment PD group.

While I have had dealings with Mr. Pyle on several occasions, I have never been of the opinion that he spoke for all police officers, only for his group.

I am a former Law Enforcement Officer. I have several years experience at both the local and federal levels. That being said I can honestly state that your articles and fact finding on ATF and MESA Police tactics have NEVER offended me in any way.

Police tactics have undergone many changes in the past few years and the "Jack Booted Thug" approach is just the latest incarnation. What used to be a source of pride for a department: "Good Old Fashioned Police Work" has been replaced by shoddy methods, poor follow through, and almost no investigation of the "suspect" BEFORE a raid occurs.

I am afraid that your prose has run up against the "Blue Wall of Silence" where some officers feel themselves duty bound to defend the actions of their "Brothers in Arms" no matter what they have done. It is a poor commentary on the evolution of the Police Officer as a public servant.

I have always made it my credo to defend a fellow officer when I knew him to be honest, forthright, and law abiding. If I found him to be "dirty" I would not defend him. There have been enough video tapes of "Police Out of Control" including some of the federal agencies that Mr. Pyle would have to be deaf as well as blind to have missed these "Law Enforcement Excesses".

Angel, I appreciate your desire to report these incidents "as they happened" sometimes in brutally honest terms. It is unfortunate that "others" are unable or unwilling to believe what is happening before their very eyes.

This message is a private one for you, If you feel the need to post it for public consumption, please remove my name and e-mail address.

Sincerely,

Name withheld by request


KABA Member: Still Beside You

Angel,

After reading Clearing the Air, I just wanted to send you a note letting you know that I will still be glad to stand beside you. I had a small taste of what you got. Back a few months ago, KABA put up an article Mr. Pyle wrote. I sent him an e-mail asking him some questions in relation to his article. I did not realize it would when I wrote it, but it went out to the 2A cops group. I was asking why it is that we rarely see cops coming out publicly asking for the prosecution (spelling) and sentencing of cops who go over the line. I very quickly got a response from him, stating that I had obviously had a bad experience and was now a completely bigoted cop hater. I also received responses from a couple of his group members who explained that I was obviously nothing more than dumb trash, not worthy of a reply. Trying to be civil, I did my best to explain my position and rephrase my questions in as none offensive a way as possible. Over the next week, the conversation went back and forth between myself and Mr. Pyle and his group. In the end, they were determined to write me off as some gun toting, cop hating, brain dead idiot. At that point, I gave up.

Angel, your one of the very few out there willing to call a spade, a spade. If they can't take the truth, that's just to bad. Please continue to stand your ground knowing that you are not, and will not, stand alone.

Dan D.


Posted in KeepAndBearArms.com Guestbook

Angel,

I certainly do not find your situation to be unique. I therefore make this response to the super critics.

The BATF has been and continues to be a criminal organization. I wonder just how many pounds (tons?) of documents some people need before they realize that the BATF is NOT a law enforcement agency. They are NOT fellow law enforcement fellows. Are these other individuals (critics) trying to tell us something about themselves? Wake up guys! It's coffee time. You don't suppose that it was YOU who were led down a primrose path. If you had a problem with Angel, why did you not go to Angel? Your "documentation" doesn't carry one ounce more weight. Sorry guys, but your actions (methods of handling this) sure look Clintonesque.

Yea I know that I am putting my own reputation with you in jeopardy. I still say, if you were truly conservative why did you handle this in this manner. Question: Well then why are you (John) violating your own rules and bringing your opinion out in public. Answer: You apparently think that all laundry is public. Hope you like GI soap. You have made enough blunders to make many of us yellow flag you. I too have been led down primrose paths. But surely we all should learn from our mistakes. Those who are goading the Satanic New Order, Worldwide, are really in for persecution. Think not? Read your history books (not modern propagandists writings, purporting their lies to be history). Those who do not learn from history curse themselves to repeat it. The SNOW is knee deep, quit shoveling back onto the path.

I do know one FACT, and that is that ALL will be held responsible for our actions. Proceed with caution and wisdom. The price for failure is far too high for either your or my budget. Our enemy is one bloody sucker.

Sincerely, John (from Minnesota)


Angel,

Whew! I just finished reading your entire rebuttal to the Leroy Pyle (et al) flame wars. And I found myself getting madder, and Madder, and MADDER!

Not at you, of course, but on your behalf. Mad at Leroy.

I can't tell you how grateful I am for your efforts for KABA. I remember writing to you the 1st day I read a KABA article, and I have written several times since. I think you have personally provided the energy to break hundreds or thousands of readers out of their silent resignation, and you have brought out to the light of day some very illegal things going on by ATF, Gore, etc.

KABA is my home page. I read every single article -- as much for the information as for the energy boost. I am a member and will contribute more as $$$ become freer (my wife has been really sick and pulling down some serious medical costs).

I don't know what kind of place the Internet or 2nd Amendment would be without KABA. I consider it the premiere site for the gathering of information and the publication of intelligently written articles. It is the FIRST place I go when I think there might be news about some gun-related thing, and it is the last thing I check before I logout for the day.

You're a true activist, Angel, and a remarkably well-spoken one. Leroy is a barking dog who loves cursing the darkness and isn't willing to light any candles.

I take your side any day of the week, and even before I read one of your articles, I know it is going to be both fair and impartial (as well as fun to read).

I hope you can continue to move on and don't let this get you down. It is always so much easier to criticize than it is to build. And what you are building deserves all our respect.

Sincerely,

Ron Cain


Treason!

I am with you on your pro gun march but you and I know just like our founding fathers told us, the only thing an out of control govt understands is force! that is the purpose of the Militia which is very legal! Trust me, when the domestic enemies of the constitution understand that there are millions of armed men standing in the way of their agenda one of two things will happen. Either they will back off or they will speed up their agenda. Remember " govt. is like fire" it knows no reason! Encourage people to prepare for war to possibly prevent it.

Stellar


Dear Angel,

Mann Killian here. I have read the better part of your posting and must say I do have some questions. However, is one to blindly believe that this man would deliberately and cavalierly put his livelihood and freedom on the line? I really think that's quite a stretch in this day of hysteria and emotional mob mentality surrounding the "gun" issue.

I read the affidavit with it's references to certain audio/videotaped transactions. Have you heard or seen these?

I think it very interesting that these "allies" of ours cite laws, regulations and procedures and not the Constitution. Regulations and procedures mean absolutely nothing as a basis for willful violations of the Constitution by an officer sworn to the same document. As for laws; there are many, many bad laws on the books that need to be repealed. As we know, most federal firearms laws are unConstitutional anyway. There is no unConstitutional law, regulation or procedure that legitimizes an action like this.

Until I find just cause to the contrary, I stand firmly by your side Sir.

In Liberty,

Mann Killian


Jack-Booted Thugs

Angel,

I read with great interest the verbal ping-pong match between you and the three wannabe Chekists, and how they so malevolently brought character assassination, and threats into it.

Leroy, Joe and Bruce. Kinda reminds me of that hippie song Abraham, Martin and John. Why am I not surprised that two of these obvious J.Edgar Hoover admirers WERE on two of the most corrupt and unconscionably violent police forces in America; Los Angeles and Noo Yawk City? I shudder to imagine where the 3rd one is from. Moscow maybe? There's an old saying about one bad apple spoiling the whole barrel. Apparently, these were some of the "apples" that were "spoiled" by belonging to America's own versions of the Nazi SS; the LAPD and the NYPD. I wonder why they are no longer on these so-called "Departments". Ya suppose they were caught doing a "Rodney King" on someone? Or maybe like the Chicago police, they were caught pulling the "burglary" scam, where the cops were the burglars? I dunno. What I DO know is that the reaction you were subjected to suggests that you provoked a "guilt" reaction that I've yet to see in print anywhere before. Where there's smoke.....

Anyway, I've written, then deleted a long diatribe against the few LEOs who abuse their position of trust and responsibility, and use it to assert their dark side, disparaging their brothers in blue in the process. There's little point in reminding them that "The Nurenburg Defense" resulted in hanged Nazis after WWII. I for one refuse to let them turn me against the many GOOD officers who are dedicated and have integrity, and nothing they can do or say can separate me from my LEO friends. They certainly are not worth getting upset over, for "what goes around comes around", and sooner or later, they will be judged, one way or another. Their threats are empty, and their words are meaningless, for they are loudmouthed pissants among men. I strongly suspect that the indignation they throw around so loosely is actually resentment of the GOOD cops who ARE dedicated to honoring their oath, and a pathetically doomed attempt to recruit them in a campaign of Draconian authoritarianism that has no place in America.

While the DEA, BATF, and FBI (of Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Elian infamy) seduce local police departments with promises of federal funds and (illegally) seized property, money and equipment, and embark on their own propaganda campaign painting them, like the NAZI SS, as the "saviours of the people", they need to stop and think. We've already seen it all before. We're not buying it.

In closing, allow me to remind everyone that VERY many of us are ex-military. We remember the oath WE took, to defend against "enemies from without and within". Absent public repudiation of this sworn oath, we are still bound by it, and it would do the Jack-Booted Thugs well to keep that in mind.

George
StarPD

Molon labe!


Angel,

In response to your reports of Law Enforcement, they are right on the money, if anything a little to nice.

I deal with LE people on a regular basis and know from experience that they truly believe they are a better segment of society than you and I. They have a attitude that we owe them, they should receive special discounts, they should not have to do anything the department wont pay for. They brag about the hours they work per shift. My contact with these people ranges from podium instructor for two major chemical/less than lethal manufactures, firearms instructor for a local firearms academy, Director of a state approved security school, to being a sworn officer of the state.

If nothing keep up the good work and expose these people for what they really are.

 

Thanks for the great job.

C. Robert McDowell


Angel,

I've had my run-ins with Leroy: He doesn't merit your angst. Eschew any contact with him.

2) You are a-okay by me. I have this little admonishment in my billfold: If two people agree on everything, one of them isn't necessary. So, we may not always be in sync, as those goose-stepping sychophants of Hitler's Third Reich, but we have numerous points in agreement.

3) We need you to continue challenging the thought processes of your readers. The NRA needs folks to challenge their leniency on infringing legislation. The whole community of patriots benefits from your jousting with lesser intent individuals. Don't stop.

As we await G.W. Bush's swearing-in, let's keep the dialogue on-going and uplifting. Afterwards, we can assess the next move.

Luther K. Lunchbucket

Florida's Panhandle


Your honor and integrity is, and has been intact as far as I'm concerned......but, continue to watch your back! As these same detractors do NOT want the truth to be told....apparently.  anyway.......

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours!

Rob
HPAS. MI.


You are still tops in my book, friend. Your defense of our Constitution and Bill of Rights says more to me than any and all slander against you. These people who speak out against you are no better than the people that conducted the raid on the FFL Dealer.

Our Founding Fathers had the same people backing the King of England too. Now look at England, they have have gun control but no Crime Control. We will not put any faith in these people.

Keep up the good work, We The People are listening.


Sincerely,

Charles R. Tinsley


Keep up the good work you are doing.  Screw the bad cops that will always defend cops no matter how bad they are.   Bad cops are like a cancer that will continue to grow if not stopped dead in its tracks by righteous people.  Waco & Ruby Ridge are good examples & now we have Mesa, Arizona.  These rogue cops must be stopped in the name of freedom & democracy, people like yourself must make a difference.

The patriot community back s you 100%.  Keep up the good work. We will not take this lying down again.  

God bless America  
Lock n Load for Freedom.

Rogers Arms


Dear Angel,

I am sorry you have been targeted by some "partial sunshine patriots". These apparently as you have found out are not patriots at all but "sunshine" types who are ready to spread false hoods as a way of expressing their jealousy of a real supporter of the 2nd amendment!!! Keep up the good work.  You have done a good job of exposing their "mean spirited attack on you."    They will be judged by a higher power when the time comes.   This shows how the "sunshine boys"  would rather follow their hobby then give to support to the 2nd Amendment. They are the leaders of a 5th column in the pro-gun movement!!

Keep up the good work.    

James


Hi,

Keep up the good work. 220 million silent majorities are with you. They always attack your character when they have something to hide.

Debra, descendant of John Alden


You have my support. I have been hassled for open carry. I have a CCP but I chose to open carry because it feels more honest to me. I have missed your messages in the last little while. I hope you continue to take an active course of action to help all of us to protect the only amendment that ensures our freedom. If I were there with you right now I would shake your hand and tell you of my friends that support you also. We have a new President that shoots so let's hope that these last remaining days are the low.

Full Support and Thanks,

John Benvenuti


Angel,

No problem here.

Fred Westergaard
Lt.Colonel, USAF (Retired)
Texas


Dear Mr. Shamaya,

Please be encouraged. There are many people, like me for example, that are police officers that don't condone what is happening in
places like Mesa, AZ. Our first oath is to defend The Constitution of The United States of America. We understand that this involves all of The Amendments, including of course, the 2nd Amendment.

We also fully believe and understand that we must never depend on government to protect us from harm. This is a responsibility carried by each one of us and we encourage and promote responsible gun ownership as one of those solutions for citizen protection. The vast majority of peace officers that I know and work with will admit that they are not the national solution to crime prevention and personal protection, but that the armed citizen is certainly part of those solutions.

If you have researched your facts down in Mesa and believe them to be correct, then you have every right to print them. Unlike the great majority of today's media, I am sure if you made any mistakes (and I don't believe you did) at least your heart and spirit is in the right place, and you would be honest enough to tell your readers of any errors discovered later.

Please keep up your efforts in the protection of 2nd Amendment rights and know that many of us who wear badges are in agreement with you.

May God continually bless and strengthen you, Mr. Shamaya.
                                                                        
Respectfully,

Jeff LeRette


Your readers know who to believe. Keep hurting them with the truth!!

Randy C.


Dear Angel,

We have never met,  but I consider you a "Brother in Arms" concerning the 2nd Amendment.  Keep up the good work and remain proud of the service you are providing to the people.  As long as you are true to your convictions,  your enemies will quake in their boots as they know Truth and Righteousness will triumph over evil.  God bless you and Keep Your Powder Dry.

Jon Taylor


More responses are pouring in and will be printed.  Anyone caring to comment on Blowing Away Police State Smokescreens can submit here: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNPAdd.asp.  All we ask is that you adhere to the Rebuttal Guidelines described here: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/news/hmmm.asp#rebut.

 

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