Keep and Bear Arms

"First Monday" Arizona - Full Report on Event

by Angel Shamaya
Director, KeepAndBearArms.com

The "First Monday" event in Phoenix was held at the city library on Central Avenue, Monday, October 2nd. It was enlightening.

Prior to the event, my friend Alan Korwin - author of numerous gun laws books and most certainly a voice of reason in this debate about firearms - was told he would not be allowed to attend. "Closed public meeting" was what he was handed as an excuse. This in itself was a clue - to something that still remains unspoken by those who sought to deny him access.

After Alan let me know he'd been told he was being denied access to the meeting, I used a non-KeepAndBearArms.com email address to notify the event promoter that I'd be attending, as follows:

I will be attending the Monday speaking event to listen to Janet Napolitano, Chief Harold Hurtt, and Carol Kamin. I may bring a friend, but I'm not sure. Do I need to call anyone to confirm?

Stopping gun violence is very, VERY important to me. Do you have directions and an address to the event, please?

Thanks....

Angel

The response I got back was precisely this:

Yes---you may bring a friend. Please sned your names, addresses and phone numbers to me. There will be security and only those on the list may attend.

To which I replied:

Wow. Big to do, eh? Should I dress extra nice?

What is the security for? Are there other celebrities coming in?

My name is Angel Shamaya, [address, phone withheld for this forum]

I've gotten interest from a couple of folks, but I need to know exactly where the event will be held and at what time so I can tell them what to plan for, schedulewise. Can I call ya? Or you can call me, but I'm out of town Thursday through Sunday, so maybe email is best...or I'll just check my voice mail with pen in hand. Oh, you could fax if it's easier. [fax number], direct, private line, fire away. Directions would really help, too.

Thanks much....

angel

When I returned Sunday night from the Gun Rights Police Conference in Arlington, Virginia, I had a voice mail message from the woman whose email you read above, explaining that I'd not made the guest list after all, "your name is not on the list, it's a closed meeting, sorry." I later found out from the event coordinator that she'd read an email suggesting that I'd managed to get onto the "guest list" through use of a non-KeepAndBearArms.com email address. (Clandestine anti-self-defense people lurk on many pro-self-defense lists.)

When I arrived at the event, my name was, of course, not on "the guest list." I was told to place my name on the waiting list to see if there were "enough seats for you." Two armed police officers monitored the door, as did a couple of other folks. The feeling was one of being very unwelcome, the silence was thick, the wait uncomfortable. Several other Americans who intend to keep their rights and are concerned about gun violence waited alongside me, their names on the "waiting list, to see if there are enough seats."

Though we were told that only people on "the guest list" could enter this event, when people whose names were not on "the guest list" walked up with "the right people," they were let right in, no problem. While I was taking notes, Alan Korwin asked the obvious question: "If only people on the list can get in, why did you just let them in when their names weren't on the list?" He was met with a "because that is the way it is" attitude that I can only describe as hostile.

After standing outside the meeting room for, literally, 45 minutes - watching people whose names weren't on the guest list pass right through - the event started, us still standing outside. I was two seconds away from making my approach for the door when Alan beat me to it. He walked up to the two armed police officers and asked one of them, "excuse me, sir, is there any reason I am being denied access to this event. I see many empty seats in the room, I am concerned about ending gun violence, and I wish to attend this meeting." A man whose name I didn't catch (spoke for the MMMers at the rally in May at Patriot's Square) stood in the doorway and said, "We'll let you in when we let you in, and that is that." It was a scene that, for a second time, felt hostile, with the violent energy coming from the "anti-violence" person.

Within minutes, someone appeared from within the room saying that the first 11 people on the list could be let in. I was on that first list, so I made my name tag and walked in.

There were quite a few empty seats, perhaps 20, maybe more. In fact, there was never a time during the entire event where all the seats were filled. There were never more than 75 or 80 people in a room that could easily hold twice that number, but we were told to "sit at the back of the bus" for 45 minutes "to make sure there is enough room."

When we finally got in, we saw a panel of people up on a stage, to the left was local radio celebrity Pat McMahon, emceeing the event. He was finishing his opening statements and explaining how public input/questions would be handled. Two speakers, questions from public, two speakers, more questions, two speakers, final public input, then eat.

The TV cameras were rolling.

The panel consisted of the following people:

Arizona Attorney General, Janet Napolitano
Phoenix Police Chief Harold Hurtt
Donna Neill, Community Director, NAILEM
Scott R. Petersen, M.D., Trauma Center, St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center
Sgt. Mark Yoshimura, Phoenix Police Department
Mary E. Rimsza, M.D., Director of Health, Arizona State University
Dr. Carol Kamin, Executive Director, Children's Action Alliance

My overall view of this event was that these folks genuinely care about exactly what they say they care about: ending gun violence. And, most of what I heard I was easily able to agree with. "Let's work together, let's save lives, let's put bad guys away..." etc. etc. It's easy to agree that we want to end violence, including violence with guns.

But some of what was said was also way off base, as well, and as could be expected.

I'll briefly cover the six speakers and what my impressions of them were.

Arizona Attorney General, Janet Napolitano

Mrs. Napolitano surprised me by saying, "I don't think we need more legislation. We need to put criminals behind bars by enforcing the laws on the books." I wish I'd had a tape recorder.

She started her speech by saying, "Today is not about the second amendment. Today is about how we can prevent gun violence." Understood, let's just make sure we honor the right of individual citizens to keep and bear firearms for defense of self, others and liberty.

I approached Mrs. Napolitano after the event to thank her for her candor and authenticity. Her armed bodyguard did his best to make me go away, as did her female staff member, explaining that the AG really had to get going to another meeting, but I managed to press palms and offer appreciation for her saying that we don't need more legislation, and that I'd be quoting her on that.

Phoenix Police Chief Harold Hurtt

The Chief's speech was more of a status report on gun violence in Phoenix. He told us gun violence is down 30% from this time last year. He told us only 2% of domestic violence cases in Phoenix involve guns. He told us Phoenix Police had confiscated 419 guns during drug raids, and 91 guns linked to gang violence.

What struck me most about Chief Hurtt was his willingness to admit he didn't have "all the answers." He exhibited commitment to solving the problem of gun violence through tough enforcement, and he alluded to many causes that range from family breakdowns to the media to drug usage, and almost mentioned the availability of guns as if in passing. Shocked me, actually, and pleasantly so. The chief is no dummy; he understands that there is much more to this issue than just guns.

The only real problem I had with Chief Hurtt's message was that he used the "10 kids a day die from gun violence in America" story, which we all know is a load of ____. He may know even know the real numbers, and I did get Sgt. Yoshimura's business card to help alert them to Reality.

Actually, one other thing that Cheif Hurtt said raised my hackles a bit. He used the analogy of tobacco-cancer/guns-violence, insinuating that guns are causal in relationship to violence. Though the analogy is understandable, it leaves much to be desired for anyone who wishes to keep their guns and not be demonized like smokers are now demonized. I've also never heard of a right to keep and bear smokes, either, and I've never heard of someone successfully defending his own life and the lives of his family members with a Marlboro.

Donna Neill, Community Director, NAILEM

This lady was a pistol. Her bag is going into neighborhoods and revitalizing them. She told of marching (with armed guards) through gang-ridden neighborhoods, with bullhorn in hand, shouting, "We know who you gang members are, we're onto you, and we're going to get you. This is our neighborhood." (Paraphrased, but that was the essence of what she said.)

Mrs. Neill said, "I can't tell you how many times we've had car jackings." Why not? The numbers are available, and car jackings are way, way down.

In discussing the effects gun violence is having on kids in her community, Mrs. Neill said, "Children shouldn't have to have this kind of fear." True, but they do, what is your solution? Marching with armed guards through neighborhoods isn't very duplicable.

She also said, "With guns, 9 times out of 10 come drugs and gangs." If this were true, given that there are an estimated 83,000,000 gun owners in America, we'd have 74,700,000 drug-related gang members.

Then Mrs. Neill gave me my first laugh of the event, when she said, "We're going to ask gun shops not to sell bullets." She made this statement as a hopeful push to get criminals to keep from buying ammo and going out and shooting people. It's a sweet thought, Mrs. Neill, but you might have a tough time getting every gun shop in the valley to agree in unison to not sell on, say, Fridays, and if you did, the scumbags who criminally misuse guns would stock up on Thursday, or any other day. Think.

Her final quote of noteworthiness: "We need to start profiling victims' cases to show people that the victims of gun violence are real people and not just statistics." Go for it, just please profile a few folks who use guns to save their own lives and the lives of their family members, as well, please. Here are a few stories you can use.

Scott R. Petersen, M.D., Trauma Center, St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center

Dr. Petersen showed slides of statistics, some of which were gathered in 1990, the most alarming of which were gathered years ago, before crime started going down. His perspective as a trauma care provider was certainly heart-wrenching, and his message was one of needing to end the type of trauma he's seeing. We all agree on that. He didn't offer much in the way of solutions, but it's good to put a problem on the table for discussion, and that he did.

Dr. Petersen also told us that gun wounds accounted for 12% of the trauma incidents in Arizona (or was it just at St. Joseph's) in 1999. This would suggest that there are much larger violence issues to address than just the mere 12 percentile cases, but it's good to start somewhere, right?

He also went into suicides as the majority of the gun-related deaths, bolstering his statistics by including deaths by choice. Personally, a suicide, to me, doesn't count much as far as this problem is concerned. Japan has more suicides than the United States, by a wide margin, and private gun ownership is banned there. People who pull their own plug will do it some other way if they want to die. And, having had my only blood brother blow his own brains out, I consider myself qualified to make that statement without offending people who've had a family member choose death by self-aimed gun. Leave your suicide gaga at the door next time you have a meeting if you want to get real about prevention. You can't legislate morality, and you cannot legislate people into wanting to live. Unless you are going to ban knives, ropes, cars and tall buildings, your suicide woes are a dead end.

Sgt. Mark Yoshimura, Phoenix Police Department

Sgt. Yoshimura was refreshing. He spoke of getting violent criminals behind bars, of the huge role the media plays in violence, and shared a great deal of perspective on community and family involvement in ending youth violence. He won't likely be pushing Eddie Eagle in schools any time soon, but he, like the Chief, is clear that the problem is not just about guns.

Most energizing was Sgt. Yoshimura's report that workplace violence has reached an all time low. He also told us that more people are injured in the workplace by falling and accidents with heavy equipment than any other cause, thirded by gun-related violence.

I spoke with Sgt. Yoshimura after the meeting, asking him how gun owners and concerned citizens could help law enforcement. Among other things, he suggested I go on a Ride Along with local officers, and he also suggested going through the Citizens Academy. I'll be getting information from him later this week on that program, but his brief description sounded like a good thing.

Mary E. Rimsza, M.D., Director of Health, Arizona State University

I had little use for this lady, and I'm not going to candycoat what I have to say, either. Dr. Rimsza's faucet doesn't reach the sink. Her "guidance" is to get guns out of the home, period. She was a ranting, emotional, false-facted mess who elicited eye-rolling from other panelists. She used the "kids are 5 times as likely to be hurt by a gun in the home" spiel, ignoring the millions of times each year guns are used to stop crime, and she didn't even do it well. What alarmed me was that other attendees actually applauded her at the exact wrong times.

Dr. Rimsza went on for quite some time about suicide, and how it's preventable if you get rid of your guns, ignoring the Japanese example above entirely. She "explained" how - even thought gun violence is plummeting - we need to "do something" or there will be another outbreak of gun violence (to applause), exhibiting the alarmist attitude rampant in people who live in fear of lawful gun ownership. She said, "if your child is depressed, no guns in the home" to applause, urging families to open themselves to indefensible home invasions because little Johnny is bummed out. She said, "to save lives, keep guns out of the homes" to applause, implying that it's better to save the small percentage of lives lost due to misuse of guns than that tremendously larger number of lives saved by self-defensive uses of guns. Like I said, her dad is named MO and her mom is named RON.

She said that last year, 70 children died by gun violence in Arizona, though she didn't tell us how many of these "children" were committing a crime and lost a gunfight, nor did she elaborate on how many of these children took their own lives. The "kids" who lost a gunfight are not much of a loss to society, in my opinion; though it is certainly sad that they took their lives into such dark places, one less gang-banger is a good thing. If all gang-bangers would just kill each other right now, we'd have a much nicer world to live in. And the kids who shot themselves, while sad, are indications that responsible parents need to _____. If you can fill in that blank without leaving a family defenseless and also preserving children's safety, you're smarter than most anti-self-defense people; write us an article and stick it here.

All in all, Dr. Rimsza would be better served finding a new passion to pursue. As it stands, the first family who takes her advice and gets victimized during a home invasion will be a winner in a lawsuit against her - for practicing outside her expertise and providing negligent counsel. Just ask Joe Horn, former law enforcement officer now working in Risk Management: Part 1, Part 2.

Dr. Carol Kamin, Executive Director, Children's Action Alliance

Dr. Kamin seemed like a very nice woman. I got her card and offered to let her make a statement to gun owners through our website in the hopes of forging an alliance with her, and, excitedly, she said she would do so.

Dr. Kamin has a report coming out shortly about her solutions to child violence, and I suspect there will be a great many things we agree upon. Her solutions range from reducing class size in schools to increasing the availability of counselors for students. (One counselor to 800 students doesn't quite fill the need.) All in all, Mrs. Kamin's heart is in the right place, and I believe we will find her a helpful ally, and vice versa. She won't be promoting Eddie Eagle for deployment on a statewide level in all schools just yet, but the potential to work together for gun safety is promising, I believe. Dr. Kamin did mention triggerlocks, sparking my only statement made during the public input section immediately thereafter.

Public Input Portion of Event

We each got just two minutes to make our statements and ask our questions. I introduced myself as the Director of KeepAndBearArms.com and a Board member of Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws. I thanked Mrs. Napolitano for saying that we don't need more legislation, and I admitted surprise at a mostly level-headed presentation. I also asked the entire panel to unify with us, as gun owners, to find mutually agreeable solutions to all violence, and I expressed my appreciation for their realizing that "guns" are not the sole factor in this societal problem. I then expressed what I consider to be a widespread concern among gun owners for mandatory triggerlocks on guns, explaining very simply that a gun with a triggerlock is of no use when a criminal home invasion takes place. All in all, because I introduced myself as an activist gun owner, I felt, mostly, stiff-armed. My question, posed to the police chief and the Sgt. was this: how can we work together, gun owners and law enforcement, to both eliminate gun violence while also preserving individual rights? Police Chief Hurtt basically blew me off, saying, "if you want to go through the academy and get trained as a police officer, then do it." But Sgt. Yoshimura responded helpfully, sparking me to approach him after the meeting as described above.

Several other people spoke, asked questions, raised issues. Of note are the following:

One man in flip flops, a dirty GOA shirt, dirty blue jeans, some gnarly looking toenails, and a long beard stood up and called himself the Reverend of the Breakfast Club or some such thing. He said that the UN has committed to banning all civilian possession of firearms, and he asked the Police Chief to comment. "I have no knowledge of this," was the Chief's answer, to which the man said he'd provide input. Now, I appreciate where this man was coming from, and I understand the UN's agenda quite well, too, but I got really clear in about 1 second that he didn't do us any favors in this forum - no matter how truthful his presentation - both for his appearance and the nature of the alarmist presentation he gave. The cameras were rolling, and I am surprised his video clip didn't get used to make us all look bad. I appreciate his spirit, and I am glad he's on our side; I'd just ask him to use personal hygiene, proper attire, and perhaps tone it down a bit when dealing in such an event.

One KABA member responded to the suicide approaches offered by a couple of the panelists by recounting how his son had shot himself - and lived - explaining very reservedly how it was a family issue, not a gun issue. That went over well; most anti-self-defense people can easily relate to victims.

Another gun owner asked the Attorney General how to best present the licensing and registration of guns and their owners, and if any studies might be available. Mrs. Napolitano attempted to say that the JAMA study would help him convince them, but this man knew better, saying, "Actually, that study said that Brady didn't reduce crime at all." Then the AG backpeddled, saying that there were questions about the validity of that study and how the numbers were compiled, and that he should go to the DOJ website. Pretty funny.

One of our legislators stood up and asked "why do we have so much profiling on victims at this meeting, but no profiling on the criminals?" I want to know who the perpetrators are so we can go after them, put them away, and end gun violence. Don't you? Another point.

Another of our members got up and went beyond his two minutes and irritated the crowd and panel by discussing at length the second amendment and the right to keep and bear arms. All in all, of course, we appreciate his commitment, but I don't think our cause was served by this approach in this specific meeting. He did, however, have a valid point. AG Napolitano began her meeting saying, "This meeting is not about the second amendment," and, for him, given that gun owners practically had to sneak and beg their way in, the meeting was, very much, to him, about the second amendment. His point was made to the gun owners present, but I don't know if anyone not already with us heard anything but ranting.

After the Meeting

After the meeting, Alan and I were standing with the man who barred Alan's entrance and the woman who put this event together, Geraldine Anderson, President of Citizens of Arizona to Prevent Gun Violence. Geraldine and the man (whose name I never caught) told us what they'd like to see, and we kept agreeing, on each point. "We just want to save kids' lives." Us too. "We want to make sure that citizens are safe." Same here. "Our goal is to provide a safe community free of gun violence." Totally agree, etc. etc.

Once we were all done agreeing, point by point, I asked Geraldine what her solution would be.

She said, "We need to require background checks for every single gun that is sold."

I asked, "Does that mean I should have to go through a background check if I am buying a gun from my best friend I've known all my life, who also lives next door to me?"

"Yes."

"Geraldine, are you aware of the concerns gun owners have about guns being registered prior to their being confiscated?"

"That doesn't wash with me. I don't buy it."

"Geraldine, are you aware that several countries registered their guns and had them confiscated in the 20th century, including Britain and Australia, and that confiscations after registrations have happened and are happening on American soil?"

"I don't care."

"Geraldine, if you want to understand and unify with gun owners, you need to understand that issue; you need to be well-versed on that issue, because it is fundamental in the minds of the people you seek to tell what to do with their guns."

"I just don't want to get into that with you."

"Okay, Geraldine, then let me get right down to it, then. Do you want to ban guns?"

"We've never talked about banning guns in our meetings."

"Not exactly a NO, now is it. Are you interested in talking further about these issues and seeking some common ground? Can I have your number to call you? Here is my card..."

"Okay."

We shall see. I do hope these folks are genuinely interested in working toward a common ground that helps eliminate unnecessary or unjustified violence while honoring the rights of lawful, peaceable gun owners. I am.

After the meeting, I met with Alan Korwin and another gun owner at a restaurant to debrief. Among other things, we discussed having a similar event with a panel - selected by us - where we invite the leaders of the gun control groups as dignitaries, and give them front row seats. The only thing I learned at this meeting was that crime was lower than I expected, politicians and police know it, they don't see a need for more legislation, and people still tell lies and ignore facts when they talk against guns.

I suspect that said dignitaries would learn a great deal more, if they'd come to our panel discussion and listen.

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Written By:	Angel Shamaya
	"First Monday" Arizona - Full Report on Event by Angel Shamaya Director, KeepAndBearArms.com The "First Monday" event in Phoenix was held at the city library on Central Avenue, Monday, October 2nd. It was enlightening. Prior to the event, my friend Alan Korwin - author of numerous gun laws books and most certainly a voice of reason in this debate about firearms - was told he would not be allowed to attend. "Closed public meeting" was what he was handed as an excuse. This in itself was a clue - to something that still remains unspoken by those who sought to deny him access. After Alan let me know he'd been told he was being denied access to the meeting, I used a non-KeepAndBearArms.com email address to notify the event promoter that I'd be attending, as follows: I will be attending the Monday speaking event to listen to Janet Napolitano, Chief Harold Hurtt, and Carol Kamin. I may bring a friend, but I'm not sure. Do I need to call anyone to confirm? Stopping gun violence is very, VERY important to me. Do you have directions and an address to the event, please? Thanks.... Angel The response I got back was precisely this: Yes---you may bring a friend. Please sned your names, addresses and phone numbers to me. There will be security and only those on the list may attend. To which I replied: Wow. Big to do, eh? Should I dress extra nice? What is the security for? Are there other celebrities coming in? My name is Angel Shamaya, [address, phone withheld for this forum] I've gotten interest from a couple of folks, but I need to know exactly where the event will be held and at what time so I can tell them what to plan for, schedulewise. Can I call ya? Or you can call me, but I'm out of town Thursday through Sunday, so maybe email is best...or I'll just check my voice mail with pen in hand. Oh, you could fax if it's easier. [fax number], direct, private line, fire away. Directions would really help, too. Thanks much.... angel When I returned Sunday night from the Gun Rights Police Conference in Arlington, Virginia, I had a voice mail message from the woman whose email you read above, explaining that I'd not made the guest list after all, "your name is not on the list, it's a closed meeting, sorry." I later found out from the event coordinator that she'd read an email suggesting that I'd managed to get onto the "guest list" through use of a non-KeepAndBearArms.com email address. (Clandestine anti-self-defense people lurk on many pro-self-defense lists.) When I arrived at the event, my name was, of course, not on "the guest list." I was told to place my name on the waiting list to see if there were "enough seats for you." Two armed police officers monitored the door, as did a couple of other folks. The feeling was one of being very unwelcome, the silence was thick, the wait uncomfortable. Several other Americans who intend to keep their rights and are concerned about gun violence waited alongside me, their names on the "waiting list, to see if there are enough seats." Though we were told that only people on "the guest list" could enter this event, when people whose names were not on "the guest list" walked up with "the right people," they were let right in, no problem. While I was taking notes, Alan Korwin asked the obvious question: "If only people on the list can get in, why did you just let them in when their names weren't on the list?" He was met with a "because that is the way it is" attitude that I can only describe as hostile. After standing outside the meeting room for, literally, 45 minutes - watching people whose names weren't on the guest list pass right through - the event started, us still standing outside. I was two seconds away from making my approach for the door when Alan beat me to it. He walked up to the two armed police officers and asked one of them, "excuse me, sir, is there any reason I am being denied access to this event. I see many empty seats in the room, I am concerned about ending gun violence, and I wish to attend this meeting." A man whose name I didn't catch (spoke for the MMMers at the rally in May at Patriot's Square) stood in the doorway and said, "We'll let you in when we let you in, and that is that." It was a scene that, for a second time, felt hostile, with the violent energy coming from the "anti-violence" person. Within minutes, someone appeared from within the room saying that the first 11 people on the list could be let in. I was on that first list, so I made my name tag and walked in. There were quite a few empty seats, perhaps 20, maybe more. In fact, there was never a time during the entire event where all the seats were filled. There were never more than 75 or 80 people in a room that could easily hold twice that number, but we were told to "sit at the back of the bus" for 45 minutes "to make sure there is enough room." When we finally got in, we saw a panel of people up on a stage, to the left was local radio celebrity Pat McMahon, emceeing the event. He was finishing his opening statements and explaining how public input/questions would be handled. Two speakers, questions from public, two speakers, more questions, two speakers, final public input, then eat. The TV cameras were rolling. The panel consisted of the following people: Arizona Attorney General, Janet Napolitano Phoenix Police Chief Harold Hurtt Donna Neill, Community Director, NAILEM Scott R. Petersen, M.D., Trauma Center, St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center Sgt. Mark Yoshimura, Phoenix Police Department Mary E. Rimsza, M.D., Director of Health, Arizona State University Dr. Carol Kamin, Executive Director, Children's Action Alliance My overall view of this event was that these folks genuinely care about exactly what they say they care about: ending gun violence. And, most of what I heard I was easily able to agree with. "Let's work together, let's save lives, let's put bad guys away..." etc. etc. It's easy to agree that we want to end violence, including violence with guns. But some of what was said was also way off base, as well, and as could be expected. I'll briefly cover the six speakers and what my impressions of them were. Arizona Attorney General, Janet Napolitano Mrs. Napolitano surprised me by saying, "I don't think we need more legislation. We need to put criminals behind bars by enforcing the laws on the books." I wish I'd had a tape recorder. She started her speech by saying, "Today is not about the second amendment. Today is about how we can prevent gun violence." Understood, let's just make sure we honor the right of individual citizens to keep and bear firearms for defense of self, others and liberty. I approached Mrs. Napolitano after the event to thank her for her candor and authenticity. Her armed bodyguard did his best to make me go away, as did her female staff member, explaining that the AG really had to get going to another meeting, but I managed to press palms and offer appreciation for her saying that we don't need more legislation, and that I'd be quoting her on that. Phoenix Police Chief Harold Hurtt The Chief's speech was more of a status report on gun violence in Phoenix. He told us gun violence is down 30% from this time last year. He told us only 2% of domestic violence cases in Phoenix involve guns. He told us Phoenix Police had confiscated 419 guns during drug raids, and 91 guns linked to gang violence. What struck me most about Chief Hurtt was his willingness to admit he didn't have "all the answers." He exhibited commitment to solving the problem of gun violence through tough enforcement, and he alluded to many causes that range from family breakdowns to the media to drug usage, and almost mentioned the availability of guns as if in passing. Shocked me, actually, and pleasantly so. The chief is no dummy; he understands that there is much more to this issue than just guns. The only real problem I had with Chief Hurtt's message was that he used the "10 kids a day die from gun violence in America" story, which we all know is a load of ____. He may know even know the real numbers, and I did get Sgt. Yoshimura's business card to help alert them to Reality. Actually, one other thing that Cheif Hurtt said raised my hackles a bit. He used the analogy of tobacco-cancer/guns-violence, insinuating that guns are causal in relationship to violence. Though the analogy is understandable, it leaves much to be desired for anyone who wishes to keep their guns and not be demonized like smokers are now demonized. I've also never heard of a right to keep and bear smokes, either, and I've never heard of someone successfully defending his own life and the lives of his family members with a Marlboro. Donna Neill, Community Director, NAILEM This lady was a pistol. Her bag is going into neighborhoods and revitalizing them. She told of marching (with armed guards) through gang-ridden neighborhoods, with bullhorn in hand, shouting, "We know who you gang members are, we're onto you, and we're going to get you. This is our neighborhood." (Paraphrased, but that was the essence of what she said.) Mrs. Neill said, "I can't tell you how many times we've had car jackings." Why not? The numbers are available, and car jackings are way, way down. In discussing the effects gun violence is having on kids in her community, Mrs. Neill said, "Children shouldn't have to have this kind of fear." True, but they do, what is your solution? Marching with armed guards through neighborhoods isn't very duplicable. She also said, "With guns, 9 times out of 10 come drugs and gangs." If this were true, given that there are an estimated 83,000,000 gun owners in America, we'd have 74,700,000 drug-related gang members. Then Mrs. Neill gave me my first laugh of the event, when she said, "We're going to ask gun shops not to sell bullets." She made this statement as a hopeful push to get criminals to keep from buying ammo and going out and shooting people. It's a sweet thought, Mrs. Neill, but you might have a tough time getting every gun shop in the valley to agree in unison to not sell on, say, Fridays, and if you did, the scumbags who criminally misuse guns would stock up on Thursday, or any other day. Think. Her final quote of noteworthiness: "We need to start profiling victims' cases to show people that the victims of gun violence are real people and not just statistics." Go for it, just please profile a few folks who use guns to save their own lives and the lives of their family members, as well, please. Here are a few stories you can use. Scott R. Petersen, M.D., Trauma Center, St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center Dr. Petersen showed slides of statistics, some of which were gathered in 1990, the most alarming of which were gathered years ago, before crime started going down. His perspective as a trauma care provider was certainly heart-wrenching, and his message was one of needing to end the type of trauma he's seeing. We all agree on that. He didn't offer much in the way of solutions, but it's good to put a problem on the table for discussion, and that he did. Dr. Petersen also told us that gun wounds accounted for 12% of the trauma incidents in Arizona (or was it just at St. Joseph's) in 1999. This would suggest that there are much larger violence issues to address than just the mere 12 percentile cases, but it's good to start somewhere, right? He also went into suicides as the majority of the gun-related deaths, bolstering his statistics by including deaths by choice. Personally, a suicide, to me, doesn't count much as far as this problem is concerned. Japan has more suicides than the United States, by a wide margin, and private gun ownership is banned there. People who pull their own plug will do it some other way if they want to die. And, having had my only blood brother blow his own brains out, I consider myself qualified to make that statement without offending people who've had a family member choose death by self-aimed gun. Leave your suicide gaga at the door next time you have a meeting if you want to get real about prevention. You can't legislate morality, and you cannot legislate people into wanting to live. Unless you are going to ban knives, ropes, cars and tall buildings, your suicide woes are a dead end. Sgt. Mark Yoshimura, Phoenix Police Department Sgt. Yoshimura was refreshing. He spoke of getting violent criminals behind bars, of the huge role the media plays in violence, and shared a great deal of perspective on community and family involvement in ending youth violence. He won't likely be pushing Eddie Eagle in schools any time soon, but he, like the Chief, is clear that the problem is not just about guns. Most energizing was Sgt. Yoshimura's report that workplace violence has reached an all time low. He also told us that more people are injured in the workplace by falling and accidents with heavy equipment than any other cause, thirded by gun-related violence. I spoke with Sgt. Yoshimura after the meeting, asking him how gun owners and concerned citizens could help law enforcement. Among other things, he suggested I go on a Ride Along with local officers, and he also suggested going through the Citizens Academy. I'll be getting information from him later this week on that program, but his brief description sounded like a good thing. Mary E. Rimsza, M.D., Director of Health, Arizona State University I had little use for this lady, and I'm not going to candycoat what I have to say, either. Dr. Rimsza's faucet doesn't reach the sink. Her "guidance" is to get guns out of the home, period. She was a ranting, emotional, false-facted mess who elicited eye-rolling from other panelists. She used the "kids are 5 times as likely to be hurt by a gun in the home" spiel, ignoring the millions of times each year guns are used to stop crime, and she didn't even do it well. What alarmed me was that other attendees actually applauded her at the exact wrong times. Dr. Rimsza went on for quite some time about suicide, and how it's preventable if you get rid of your guns, ignoring the Japanese example above entirely. She "explained" how - even thought gun violence is plummeting - we need to "do something" or there will be another outbreak of gun violence (to applause), exhibiting the alarmist attitude rampant in people who live in fear of lawful gun ownership. She said, "if your child is depressed, no guns in the home" to applause, urging families to open themselves to indefensible home invasions because little Johnny is bummed out. She said, "to save lives, keep guns out of the homes" to applause, implying that it's better to save the small percentage of lives lost due to misuse of guns than that tremendously larger number of lives saved by self-defensive uses of guns. Like I said, her dad is named MO and her mom is named RON. She said that last year, 70 children died by gun violence in Arizona, though she didn't tell us how many of these "children" were committing a crime and lost a gunfight, nor did she elaborate on how many of these children took their own lives. The "kids" who lost a gunfight are not much of a loss to society, in my opinion; though it is certainly sad that they took their lives into such dark places, one less gang-banger is a good thing. If all gang-bangers would just kill each other right now, we'd have a much nicer world to live in. And the kids who shot themselves, while sad, are indications that responsible parents need to _____. If you can fill in that blank without leaving a family defenseless and also preserving children's safety, you're smarter than most anti-self-defense people; write us an article and stick it here. All in all, Dr. Rimsza would be better served finding a new passion to pursue. As it stands, the first family who takes her advice and gets victimized during a home invasion will be a winner in a lawsuit against her - for practicing outside her expertise and providing negligent counsel. Just ask Joe Horn, former law enforcement officer now working in Risk Management: Part 1, Part 2. Dr. Carol Kamin, Executive Director, Children's Action Alliance Dr. Kamin seemed like a very nice woman. I got her card and offered to let her make a statement to gun owners through our website in the hopes of forging an alliance with her, and, excitedly, she said she would do so. Dr. Kamin has a report coming out shortly about her solutions to child violence, and I suspect there will be a great many things we agree upon. Her solutions range from reducing class size in schools to increasing the availability of counselors for students. (One counselor to 800 students doesn't quite fill the need.) All in all, Mrs. Kamin's heart is in the right place, and I believe we will find her a helpful ally, and vice versa. She won't be promoting Eddie Eagle for deployment on a statewide level in all schools just yet, but the potential to work together for gun safety is promising, I believe. Dr. Kamin did mention triggerlocks, sparking my only statement made during the public input section immediately thereafter. Public Input Portion of Event We each got just two minutes to make our statements and ask our questions. I introduced myself as the Director of KeepAndBearArms.com and a Board member of Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws. I thanked Mrs. Napolitano for saying that we don't need more legislation, and I admitted surprise at a mostly level-headed presentation. I also asked the entire panel to unify with us, as gun owners, to find mutually agreeable solutions to all violence, and I expressed my appreciation for their realizing that "guns" are not the sole factor in this societal problem. I then expressed what I consider to be a widespread concern among gun owners for mandatory triggerlocks on guns, explaining very simply that a gun with a triggerlock is of no use when a criminal home invasion takes place. All in all, because I introduced myself as an activist gun owner, I felt, mostly, stiff-armed. My question, posed to the police chief and the Sgt. was this: how can we work together, gun owners and law enforcement, to both eliminate gun violence while also preserving individual rights? Police Chief Hurtt basically blew me off, saying, "if you want to go through the academy and get trained as a police officer, then do it." But Sgt. Yoshimura responded helpfully, sparking me to approach him after the meeting as described above. Several other people spoke, asked questions, raised issues. Of note are the following: One man in flip flops, a dirty GOA shirt, dirty blue jeans, some gnarly looking toenails, and a long beard stood up and called himself the Reverend of the Breakfast Club or some such thing. He said that the UN has committed to banning all civilian possession of firearms, and he asked the Police Chief to comment. "I have no knowledge of this," was the Chief's answer, to which the man said he'd provide input. Now, I appreciate where this man was coming from, and I understand the UN's agenda quite well, too, but I got really clear in about 1 second that he didn't do us any favors in this forum - no matter how truthful his presentation - both for his appearance and the nature of the alarmist presentation he gave. The cameras were rolling, and I am surprised his video clip didn't get used to make us all look bad. I appreciate his spirit, and I am glad he's on our side; I'd just ask him to use personal hygiene, proper attire, and perhaps tone it down a bit when dealing in such an event. One KABA member responded to the suicide approaches offered by a couple of the panelists by recounting how his son had shot himself - and lived - explaining very reservedly how it was a family issue, not a gun issue. That went over well; most anti-self-defense people can easily relate to victims. Another gun owner asked the Attorney General how to best present the licensing and registration of guns and their owners, and if any studies might be available. Mrs. Napolitano attempted to say that the JAMA study would help him convince them, but this man knew better, saying, "Actually, that study said that Brady didn't reduce crime at all." Then the AG backpeddled, saying that there were questions about the validity of that study and how the numbers were compiled, and that he should go to the DOJ website. Pretty funny. One of our legislators stood up and asked "why do we have so much profiling on victims at this meeting, but no profiling on the criminals?" I want to know who the perpetrators are so we can go after them, put them away, and end gun violence. Don't you? Another point. Another of our members got up and went beyond his two minutes and irritated the crowd and panel by discussing at length the second amendment and the right to keep and bear arms. All in all, of course, we appreciate his commitment, but I don't think our cause was served by this approach in this specific meeting. He did, however, have a valid point. AG Napolitano began her meeting saying, "This meeting is not about the second amendment," and, for him, given that gun owners practically had to sneak and beg their way in, the meeting was, very much, to him, about the second amendment. His point was made to the gun owners present, but I don't know if anyone not already with us heard anything but ranting. After the Meeting After the meeting, Alan and I were standing with the man who barred Alan's entrance and the woman who put this event together, Geraldine Anderson, President of Citizens of Arizona to Prevent Gun Violence. Geraldine and the man (whose name I never caught) told us what they'd like to see, and we kept agreeing, on each point. "We just want to save kids' lives." Us too. "We want to make sure that citizens are safe." Same here. "Our goal is to provide a safe community free of gun violence." Totally agree, etc. etc. Once we were all done agreeing, point by point, I asked Geraldine what her solution would be. She said, "We need to require background checks for every single gun that is sold." I asked, "Does that mean I should have to go through a background check if I am buying a gun from my best friend I've known all my life, who also lives next door to me?" "Yes." "Geraldine, are you aware of the concerns gun owners have about guns being registered prior to their being confiscated?" "That doesn't wash with me. I don't buy it." "Geraldine, are you aware that several countries registered their guns and had them confiscated in the 20th century, including Britain and Australia, and that confiscations after registrations have happened and are happening on American soil?" "I don't care." "Geraldine, if you want to understand and unify with gun owners, you need to understand that issue; you need to be well-versed on that issue, because it is fundamental in the minds of the people you seek to tell what to do with their guns." "I just don't want to get into that with you." "Okay, Geraldine, then let me get right down to it, then. Do you want to ban guns?" "We've never talked about banning guns in our meetings." "Not exactly a NO, now is it. Are you interested in talking further about these issues and seeking some common ground? Can I have your number to call you? Here is my card..." "Okay." We shall see. I do hope these folks are genuinely interested in working toward a common ground that helps eliminate unnecessary or unjustified violence while honoring the rights of lawful, peaceable gun owners. I am. After the meeting, I met with Alan Korwin and another gun owner at a restaurant to debrief. Among other things, we discussed having a similar event with a panel - selected by us - where we invite the leaders of the gun control groups as dignitaries, and give them front row seats. The only thing I learned at this meeting was that crime was lower than I expected, politicians and police know it, they don't see a need for more legislation, and people still tell lies and ignore facts when they talk against guns. I suspect that said dignitaries would learn a great deal more, if they'd come to our panel discussion and listen.